Here's a thought, atheism has been Faith based since 1929 when hubble discovered that the universe had a beginning.  This made the belief that what caused the beginning of the universe a matter of faith.  We know it happened, but it takes faith to believe it either was purposeful, or not as there is no scientific evidence either way.  Available evidence actual leads to a theory of purposeful origin, because current scientific understanding is that all things have a cause.
Happy to be caught up with newest chapter, thanks!

(posted from the Item Information Page)

If we are defining the term "Atheism" as "The belief that there is no God", then Atheism has always been faith-based, as "faith" is merely the belief in something for which there is currently no proof.  You cannot prove a negative, therefore you can never prove "There is no God."

Of course, modern Atheists seem to want to change the definition of Atheism, replacing it with the definition of Agnosticism, which is simply the acceptance that there is no proof either way, and is thus the only truly non-faith-based system.

Not sure how this was relevant to current chapters, but oh well. 

Eric Storm

I disagree with your definition of atheism. For many it is a lack of belief any god or gods.  It is not a belief itself. Most atheists would accept actual evidence of an intelligent force if the evidence was provided. 

To clarify the distinction from agnosticism, an agnostic simply says they don't know and all possibilities are equally likely.  The non-belief atheists provide me evidence and I will consider it. 

I liken it to belief in bigfoot or the Loch Ness Monster. The people who believe need to show me the evidence.  Until then, I will assume there is no god or gods, just like I assume there is no bigfoot or Loch Ness monster.  That's not the same as agnosticism, nor is it an affirmative belief.

(posted from the Item Information Page)

Man I would like to edit that, but I believe my point is clear,

(posted from the Item Information Page)

hst666 wrote:

nor is it an affirmative belief.

Actually, it very much IS an affirmative belief.  You accept something as true, without any proof of its validity.  You said it point blank:

hst666 wrote:

I will assume there is no god or gods

"There is no god."  That is a statement of belief, as you have absolutely no evidence to back it up.

I don't understand why people shy away from this definition so much.  If you truly believe there is no God, then own that, and call yourself what you are: an Atheist.  If you truly accept that you don't know one way or the other, then own that, and call yourself an Agnostic.  It confuses me that people keep trying to redefine Atheist to mean Agnostic.  Well, if that's to be the case, then what do we call people who truly believe there is no God?

Eric Storm

Again, I do not believe there is no god, it's just that no one has provided adequate evidence there is one. A lack of believe is not a belief. If someone told you there faeries living in the forest, is it a belief to say "that sounds like nonsense; prove it."

(posted from the Item Information Page)

And it absolutely is not "faith" It is a conclusion based on the practice of science.

(posted from the Item Information Page)

And it absolutely is not "faith" It is a conclusion based on the practice of science.

(posted from the Item Information Page)

deleted

You... need to look up the definition of faith and conclusion.

Faith is the belief in something,

1 "complete trust or confidence in someone or something".
2 "Strong belief in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual conviction rather than proof"

Conclusion is "a judgement or decision reached by reasoning", so your judgement is either there is or isn't a god based on X factors.

While they aren't the exact same, in this context, they refer to the same thing. You have faith in something because of x factors based on x conclusions.

hst666 wrote:

And it absolutely is not "faith" It is a conclusion based on the practice of science.

(posted from the Item Information Page)

Agnosticism is rather silly, in my opinion. I used to be an agnostic. Then someone pointed out to me:

- If I was right and there is no God, all is good.
- If I'm wrong  and there is a God, and there is an afterlife and there is Hell and all that, then I'm in trouble.
- If I'm wrong, but I open myself up to the idea, to the possibility, if I allow God/Jesus in, then whether there is a God or not, I'm good.

If you are unsure, what does it hurt to say "Okay, maybe..." and go with that idea. If you're right and there is no God, nothing is lost, nothing is gained. If you however, you're wrong and there is a God.....

And, I guess that's when I started to become a Christian.

Jefferson:
I want to respond to you, but everything I would say here could be insulting to your personal belief system, so I'm not going to.  What I will tell you is that I was a Protestant Christian for 26 years before I became an Agnostic.  I became an Agnostic because it was the only position I could hold where I wasn't lying to myself and others.  You may consider it silly, but I'd already attempted the "righteous path" and found it... an unsatisfactory option for me, and Agnosticism was what I was left with.

hst666:

hst666 wrote:

I do not believe there is no god,

Then why call yourself an Atheist?  If you simply do not believe in either direction, if you are willing to simply say "I don't know", then you are an Agnostic, not an Atheist.  My 'beef' in this situation is purely linguistic.  There needs to be a term for people who carry the belief that no God or gods exist.  Those people, we should call Atheists, as it is the traditional term for them.  Thus, to differentiate, the group of people who simply do not believe in either direction, we should call Agnostics, as it is the traditional term for them.  For me it is not about what you believe or don't believe, it is simply about what you call yourself, and the clarity of communication.

hst666 wrote:

And it absolutely is not "faith" It is a conclusion based on the practice of science.

This statement is fallacious.  There can be no "conclusion based on the practice of science" regarding the existence of God.  "I don't know" is not a conclusion, and any other option is not based on science.

darthel0101 and Elessar:

Let's not get nasty about this, okay?  Let's keep this in the realm of debate, and not argument.  This conversation is technically a violation of the site rules.  I'm only allowing it because it's (loosely) related to the story.  If it starts to get heated, I will have to shut it down.

Eric Storm

Eric Storm wrote:

darthel0101 and Elessar:

Let's not get nasty about this, okay?  Let's keep this in the realm of debate, and not argument.  This conversation is technically a violation of the site rules.  I'm only allowing it because it's (loosely) related to the story.  If it starts to get heated, I will have to shut it down.

Eric Storm

understood - my comment will be removed

Removal wasn't necessary.  In fact, I dislike it when people remove their comments, as it makes it impossible for future readers to fully understand what they are able to read.  Just make sure to keep it civil in the future.  You're debating the issue, not the person.

Eric Storm

I apologize, I had to look back and see my comment from a different angle to see what you mean Eric, I apologize for it becoming heated.

darthel0101 and Elessar:

Let's not get nasty about this, okay?  Let's keep this in the realm of debate, and not argument.  This conversation is technically a violation of the site rules.  I'm only allowing it because it's (loosely) related to the story.  If it starts to get heated, I will have to shut it down.

Eric Storm

Damn thats a good Chapter!
Nicks really developing as a character :-)

(posted from Chapter 33)

JustLucky wrote:

Damn thats a good Chapter!
Nicks really developing as a character :-)

Glad you enjoyed it.  Thanks for the feedback.

Eric Storm

Thanks for the new chapter in Nick's saga - - - it was extremely enjoyable

(posted from Chapter 33)

Ack, I don't know where I was last, and its been a while for me logging in, much less reading anything... and my last post was an argument 5 years ago...

Guess it's time to start over reading.

Another fantastic chapter! Please do not wait so long to post your next one.

(posted from Chapter 27)

Beautiful. Please don’t stop your writing.

(posted from Chapter 28)

Noice work, looking forward to the next installment :-)

(posted from Chapter 34)

Very interesting. Several different story elements all moved forward. Lots of moving parts with this story. One thought I had was Nick seemed to brush off the Alumitanium interest in Pterajet rather quickly. Possibly it could come back to haunt him later? That's just a thought I had. Nick is moving the company forward in many different directions all at once. In the "real world" that would be attracting attention from many different directions. Many possible plot developments. Looking forward to seeing where you take the plot line. Thank you for all your creative efforts.

(posted from the Item Information Page)

Stretchlace wrote:

Very interesting. Several different story elements all moved forward. Lots of moving parts with this story. One thought I had was Nick seemed to brush off the Alumitanium interest in Pterajet rather quickly. Possibly it could come back to haunt him later? That's just a thought I had. Nick is moving the company forward in many different directions all at once. In the "real world" that would be attracting attention from many different directions. Many possible plot developments. Looking forward to seeing where you take the plot line. Thank you for all your creative efforts.

Nick didn't "brush off" the info about Alumitanium.  He didn't want to discuss it with an outsider.  If he's going to get more information, he's going to get it from trusted sources, not unknown ones.

And yes, I realize that there really should be more businesses interested in SALT Corp... but I can only cover just so much in one story, so I have to reduce some things.  The story is more about the people than the company, so...

Eric Storm

I love this story!

(posted from Chapter 34)