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#1 2015-10-12 23:07:02

Bridget
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Woodward Academy, Year 5, The

Woodward Academy, Year 5, The

With the betrayal of the previous year, along with the loss of most of his school friends, David isn't really looking forward to the new school year.

When he is forced to deal with a gang on campus calling itself The Clan, things only get worse.


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#2 2015-10-14 00:41:47

swwblackhawk
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Re: Woodward Academy, Year 5, The

What I've been curious about is if before it is all said and done if David plans on taking a Crack at the curse on Jacob and what fall out that entails. Well I know it will be a intersting read no matter what

Last edited by swwblackhawk (2015-10-14 00:43:02)

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#3 2015-10-14 01:13:32

Eric Storm
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Re: Woodward Academy, Year 5, The

This has been discussed before.  David is not very good at enchantments.  As such, he isn't likely to go looking to try to craft a countercurse to an enchantment he doesn't even know.

Eric Storm


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#4 2015-10-15 00:36:56

swwblackhawk
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Registered: 2015-09-30
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Re: Woodward Academy, Year 5, The

Ah well I can see how that would be a issue. Keep up the great work

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#5 2015-10-15 12:56:09

Barbarian3165
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Registered: 2015-02-11
Posts: 329

Re: Woodward Academy, Year 5, The

I have another hypothetical... Couldn't David track down the ghost of the dark wizard that cursed Jacob?  Provided Jacob knew the person who cursed him anyway and provided he hasn't discorporated.  According to Lord Woodward and other references in the story, ghosts fear demighosts which are a force to be reckoned with in Haven.

If David managed to track down the ghost couldn't he get the details of the curse from him?  I think that would make it much easier to break Jacob's curse even if he had to talk to the teachers at Woodward or maybe the ghosts at Woodward, like Lord Woodward.

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#6 2015-10-15 15:32:57

Eric Storm
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Re: Woodward Academy, Year 5, The

Ghosts do not FEAR demighosts.  They don't like them, due mainly to the fact that demighosts still have a solid form and can live in the solid realms.  Yes, a demighost has some power over ghosts, but that is mostly limited to an ability to force them out of an area without enacting ghost prevention fields.

Also, keep in mind that any wizard this powerful in life, will be similarly powerful in death, just with ghost wizard magic instead of normal magic.  Sure, he might be able to track him down (unlikely, but possible)... and then what?  You think the guy's just going to happily give up his curse?  No, David would have a major fight on his hands.  One that he is perhaps not equipped to win.

Eric Storm


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#7 2015-10-16 18:02:37

Kevin_F
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Registered: 2015-04-09
Posts: 1

Re: Woodward Academy, Year 5, The

First I want to complement you on a entertaining novel that has continued to improve the complexity and dynamics of the main characters over the five years of story time.  I have a specific observation that involves a spoiler, thus the post here instead of the story feedback area. 

I am having difficulty in seeing how Bob could have joined the Clan.  The reason for my issues are:

The Clan was harassing Bob in February and toward the end of February Bob was still angry at the way he was treated.  Would Bob align with those who made fun of him, especially in such a short time?  I do not see Bob as a person who quickly changes is opinion, but he is a dragon;)

Why would the Clan accept and then let a person join who they were harassing less than two months earlier?  I'm not sure that the Clan wouldn't suspect that Bob is trying to infiltrate their group.  After all it has been such a short time and he was seen with David. In addition there were only a small number of people who knew about David and Bob's argument, would the Clan even know about it if that was behind their recruitment of him?

One other difficulty I have is the idea of Bob taking orders from others. He appears too egotistical to do such a thing.

I will not assume that you have not already thought this story thread out.  When one becomes engrossed in a story you almost feel an obligation to take the opportunity to present your own thoughts (hopefully in what others consider a friendly manner). 

I am not expecting a direct answer here regarding the above since the story is still in progress.  I am anxiously waiting to see how you resolve both the Bob and Clan story lines, in addition to the other open ended story threads (e.g., the Amulet, difficult future, Ellie's graduation).

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#8 2015-10-16 23:22:57

Eric Storm
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Re: Woodward Academy, Year 5, The

How/why would Bob join the clan:

Bob is PISSED OFF. (Capitalization added to indicate degree of pissage...)  David has become an enemy.  As such, Bob would be willing to join The Clan, despite their derision, to hurt David.

As to why The Clan would accept him:  We don't know (because I refused to detail) what Bob's entry into The Clan was like... but I think it is safe to assume it involved Bob showing that he was strong enough to kick some second-year's ass.  (Perhaps use of the "pyrodyne" subterfuge...)

As to taking orders:  People (and dragons) will do a lot of things to achieve their objectives, especially when pissed off.  On the other hand, The Clan seems to be very cellular in nature, and Bob is likely head of his little cell, thus not having to take orders very often.

Ultimately, it's a case of neither Bob nor The Clan thinking things through clearly... a common failing of young people and angry dragons.

Eric Storm

PS:  You DID put this in the story feedback thread.  They all go to the same forum.


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#9 2015-10-19 00:39:12

Fenixreign
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Registered: 2014-08-02
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Re: Woodward Academy, Year 5, The

As for lifting Jacob's curse, guys, while tracking down the original wizard or lifting it himself is pretty much out of the question, with all of David's skills and his contacts (including the Court of the King and the fact that he will, by all indications, be a member of 3 guilds with at least 1 high levely Mastery(potions)) he should be able to trade his services/favors owed for an incredibly powerful wizard in countercurses to help out Jacob.  It is an OPTION and it's not like David and Jacob don't have time.

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#10 2015-10-19 02:05:45

Eric Storm
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Re: Woodward Academy, Year 5, The

Okay, I've said this before, but the message has been hacked away, so I will say it again:

In order to produce a countercurse in any reasonable amount of time, you must know what the original curse was.  You cannot simply "know what it did", or have some idea of what it was.  You must know exactly what it is.  Otherwise, you are trying to fight effects that may or may not be evident.  For instance:  The fact that the first person to die in Jacob's presence was turned into a demighost.  Without the wizard having told Jacob that, Jacob would have been just as shocked at David's predicament in the beginning as David himself was.  It is simply too hard to have any idea about all of the effects of a curse, and you have to break the curse all at once: you can't break part of a curse.

Further, the more complex a curse is, the more time it would take to break it through brute force means.  A curse as complicated as the one around Jacob would take several lifetimes of concerted effort.  Yes, David has the time, but not the skill (currently).  No other wizard would be willing to devote his own life... and the life of several generations of descendants... to the cause.

Therefore, it is exceedingly unlikely that it would be possible to break Jacob free without the cooperation - willing or otherwise - of the wizard who cast the curse.

Eric Storm


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#11 2015-10-20 13:37:52

iskoaya
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Registered: 2015-06-30
Posts: 16

Re: Woodward Academy, Year 5, The

question.... any chance the lamia's will be showing up again?

shame about his fish not swimming tho...  David would make a great dad, eventually.

(posted from the Item Information Page)

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#12 2015-10-20 16:22:14

Eric Storm
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Re: Woodward Academy, Year 5, The

Some reason you want to see the lamias again, hmm? 
3dsmile

Eric Storm


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#13 2015-10-21 03:11:59

iskoaya
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Re: Woodward Academy, Year 5, The

yup, much love for non-humans... i see too many of them every time i wake up.

(posted from the Item Information Page)

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#14 2015-10-25 04:37:53

SkiesEnd
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Registered: 2015-10-14
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Re: Woodward Academy, Year 5, The

Since Jacob knew an effect of the curse, turning the first who died in his presence, does that mean that he knows who cast the curse so that hunting down said dark wizard is a possibility? I mean David does have eternity to look =P

Also I would love if maybe as a slight spinoff  you could post more about how magic works in this world you created? I mean how you explained the curse was not something I would have thought of with the info given so far.  What words do what, how they are combined.  How did they make them silent, was more words needed or just more visualization? 

More info on Haven could be another spinoff. I mean if a demighost can ghost a human why didnt David ghost Zyla when her father came to visit so they could embrace and stuff while talking.  When David went with Joe and Viv on that case of the damaged wall why didnt David offer to ghost the girl so she could hug her mother?  Since ghosts can have physical contact with other ghosts and make objects ghostly, thus potentially making structures in Haven, why dont ghosts get married and have homes ect.

Alot of questions I know, but you have made quite the world and the more I read of this series the more I want to know about the world and not necessarily just David and the gang.

Anyway thanks for everything Eric

PS Forgive any horrid grammar and spelling. The only English I know is bad English 3dsad

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#15 2015-10-25 17:29:34

Eric Storm
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Re: Woodward Academy, Year 5, The

SkiesEnd wrote:

Since Jacob knew an effect of the curse, turning the first who died in his presence, does that mean that he knows who cast the curse so that hunting down said dark wizard is a possibility? I mean David does have eternity to look =P

No he doesn't.  He only has until the wizard discorporates himself, which is a non-fixed timeframe that may have already expired.  Further, Jacob knows what effects the curse has because the wizard told him what the curse did.  (I know, I didn't say that in book 1, but that has always been the case.)  And no, that would not be enough information to try to build a countercurse.  First, the dark wizard could have intentionally or accidentally left out information, and second, the information would be too general to build the countercurse off of.

SkiesEnd wrote:

Also I would love if maybe as a slight spinoff  you could post more about how magic works in this world you created? I mean how you explained the curse was not something I would have thought of with the info given so far.  What words do what, how they are combined.  How did they make them silent, was more words needed or just more visualization?

How am I supposed to make a story out of how to craft a magic spell?  And I am in no way about to try to figure out "what words do what".  There is a REASON I have detailed very few of the spells that wizards use.  You're asking me to literally create the entirety of magic.  If I did that, I'd have no time for anything else.  Like eating.

SkiesEnd wrote:

More info on Haven could be another spinoff. I mean if a demighost can ghost a human why didnt David ghost Zyla when her father came to visit so they could embrace and stuff while talking.  When David went with Joe and Viv on that case of the damaged wall why didnt David offer to ghost the girl so she could hug her mother?  Since ghosts can have physical contact with other ghosts and make objects ghostly, thus potentially making structures in Haven, why dont ghosts get married and have homes ect.

Again, there's no story here.  And you apparently missed the conversation before it got deleted, so I will re-explain here:  When David turns a person into an ethereal form, they are NOT ghosts.  Normal ghosts cannot exist outside of Haven.  Those "ghosted" people could not enter Haven, as they still have mass.  What David has done, in effect, is to phase-shift them from a solid form to a form that can pass through matter.  As far as their relation to real ghosts, nothing has changed.  David could have ghosted Zyla, or the little girl: it wouldn't have made any difference.  They would not be ghosts, and the ghosts in question would not have been able to interact with them any further than they could normally.  Remember, when David ghosts himself, he really IS a ghost.  The only ghost that can exist outside Haven.  This is why HE can interact easily with other ghosts when he's been ghosted.  But the same does not hold true for a "ghosted" human.

As to making Haven more livable.... listen to the term:  LIVE-able.  Ghosts don't live.  And not every ghost is capable of etherealizing objects to make them Haven-compatible.  As to getting married:  to what end?  They can't raise a family, they have no careers or jobs.  Their existence will remain the same, forever.  As I said in book 1, Living forever is not all it's cracked up to be.

Also, it would be good to remember that only a very small section of the ghosts in Haven are wizards at all.  Most ghosts are normal people, with no extra abilities whatsoever.  They would not be able to etherealize things. 

Then there is the issue of loss and grief.  While the living grieve for a few years and then get on with their lives, the dead do not have lives to get on with.  Their grieving often takes much longer, and the sense of loss rarely leaves them completely.  By the time they've come to adjust to their situation, they are most likely already aware of the futility of forming any sort of real bond with another ghost.  Now, I'm sure that there are "ghost couples" who spend their time together until one or the other (or both) discorporate, but it's going to be the rare exception, because most ghosts simply aren't going to see the point.

I can see the grief counseling session for a ghost now.  The ghost sits on the couch while the therapist says, "There, there.  Things will be all right."  The newly ghosted looks up and then, gesturing to Haven, screams, "How is THIS going to be ALL RIGHT?"  The therapist, a little nonplussed, says, "Well... it can't get any worse?"

SkiesEnd wrote:

Alot of questions I know, but you have made quite the world and the more I read of this series the more I want to know about the world and not necessarily just David and the gang.

The problem is that the world is there to serve the characters, and not the other way around.  There will most likely be other stories in the Dugerran universe after Woodward, but they won't endeavor to fully explain things, either.  Pieces will be explained as they're needed.  I'm not about to try to write the Encyclopedia Dugerria.

Thanks for the interest,
Eric Storm


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#16 2015-10-25 22:01:58

SkiesEnd
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Re: Woodward Academy, Year 5, The

Thanks for the info. I did not know the difference between ghosted live and David turning so that throws that out.

I horribly phrased the interest in the world you created, my apologies.  I am not asking about more stories but rather like books to explain things.  As you said you arent interested in doing that so moot point.

Okay so most ghosts are from Earth and non magical that could limit the ghosted objects but as to why...  so they wouldnt be sad cranky ghosts that have nothing to do. 
I mean yes they died but their existence isnt over.  You mentioned traders in Haven so there should be enough ghost wizards that could theoretically be ghosting objects and thus build up towns ect.  Just because they are dead does not mean that they cant go on with their unlife meeting other ghosts, reading, learning ect.  Anything they learn or think to have made could be done with working with the living.

I know I am most likely not expressing myself clearly but with how death in your world works I dont see the reason for the ghost to be cranky and hateful of living folks.  Yes living or undeath or ghosting or whatever you want to call it forever is not fun that does not mean you cant enjoy another few centuries before poofing.

Thanks for the response and for the wonderful series.  If I am annoying ya just say no and tell me to drop it =P

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#17 2015-10-26 00:31:14

Eric Storm
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From: New Port Richey, FL
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Re: Woodward Academy, Year 5, The

Okay, clearly you have misconceptions about a few points:

1. Ghost Traders:  Yes, there are a few.  They are not common.  Stop and think about it:  Who are they trading with?  They would have to trade with other Ghost Traders exclusively.  Why?  Because no one else has a means to pay them for their service.  This leaves virtually every ghost out of this economic loop.  Haven is empty because there aren't, in fact, enough capable people to fill it with objects.

2. Ability to work with the living:  Greater than 90% of all ghosts come from Earth.  The Haven/Earth barrier is thin in only a few select places.  Only in those places can ghosts even communicate with Earth.  Given this, there is, for all practical purposes, no communication between Earth and Haven.  Thus, how are the ghosts supposed to work with the living?  They can't even talk to them.  This 90+% of ghosts is never going to feel comfortable communicating with Dugerrans: they know nothing of the world, and its rules will seem alien to them.

3. Haven itself is an unpleasant place.  It was described as "cold in a way that had nothing to do with the temperature."  In other words, it's not a cheerful place to be.  This is part of what Haven is; it isn't something that can be changed.  You can get used to it, but you're never going to enjoy being in Haven.

Given all of this, it would be difficult, if not impossible, for ghosts to continue on with any sort of normal life... and most would find it pointless to do so.  There is no real, meaningful, improvement possible in Haven.  Most people don't like working toward a goal they know they can never achieve.  The most common ghost sentiment to tackling any sort of project requiring effort would be, "What's the point?"

Eric Storm


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#18 2015-10-26 13:33:19

SkiesEnd
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Registered: 2015-10-14
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Re: Woodward Academy, Year 5, The

Ok that shoots down everything hehe, was a thought but guess not.

Another question about Jacob. He is trapped in Haven and the barrier at the house on Spooner street isnt thin enough, could he appear ghostly in the duggeran equiv of the house on Spooner street?  If so, with all his wealth couldnt he have had his financial manager set up something there, or buy what is there, and have mirror for music or what not and books galore?  If he cant interact then hire a duggeran just to turn pages and such?

I know I am asking alot of questions, hope you dont mind.

Thanks

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#19 2015-10-26 16:12:50

Eric Storm
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Re: Woodward Academy, Year 5, The

There is no "Dugerran equivalent" of the house on Spooner Street.  If such a thing occurred, the ghosts in Haven would see both worlds superimposed on each other, unable to make any sense of the jumble (and making their existence even more miserable...)

Haven touches both worlds, but those worlds do not touch each other.  There is a "gap" (for lack of a better term).  You can get to both worlds through Haven, but you have to travel a distance.  It's a very complicated inter-dimensional thing that I'm not about to try to explain any further.  Just rest assured that you cannot see both Earth and Dugerra from any one point in Haven.

So, no, he couldn't do what you suggest.

Eric Storm

PS:  How many wizards do you think would actually do a job turning pages?  Talk about unfulfilling...


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#20 2015-10-26 17:07:24

SkiesEnd
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Re: Woodward Academy, Year 5, The

Ok that explains that.

Unfulfilling? Perhaps, but not unrewarding.  There is precious little another person wont do for enough money.
I mean 8 hours a day just to be at a beck and call of another even if just turning pages gives you 200k or so a year?  Yes please!~  Wizards might be different, but there are waitresses and store clerks, not exactly the most fulfilling.

Thanks for taking the time to explain things 3dsmile

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#21 2015-10-27 03:49:01

Eric Storm
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From: New Port Richey, FL
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Posts: 5742
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Re: Woodward Academy, Year 5, The

Actually, lots of people quite enjoy being store clerks.  Especially in "Mom & Pop" kinds of stores, where you get to know your customers.  Similarly with waitresses.

And paying $200K per year for unskilled labor would be downright stupid.  Especially since you'd have paid them enough to go find something better to do with their time.  I think you'd find that such a job palled after precious few days, and once you'd saved up enough money from being paid so well, you'd go find something more interesting to do.  Money really isn't everything to most people.

Eric Storm


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#22 2015-10-28 12:00:33

SkiesEnd
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Re: Woodward Academy, Year 5, The

The amount paid might be stupid to you or me but someone with alot of money and not many options it ensures that Jacob gets workers.

High turnover is quite likely and that is fine and also the reason for the pay.  Most people, unless extremely lucky, do jobs for money not because they like them.  So yes a boring tedius job that pays well is something people would take if even for just a year or two.  Also Jacob could do it via contract for at least a year.

Money isnt everything for those that have it.  Those that dont its the, usually, primary goal since once achieved other goals become possible.

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#23 2015-10-28 17:23:29

Eric Storm
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Re: Woodward Academy, Year 5, The

SkiesEnd wrote:

Most people, unless extremely lucky, do jobs for money not because they like them.

This is NOT, generally speaking, true of college graduates, which everyone in Dugerra is.  College graduates pick their careers, and their jobs, because they thoroughly expect to enjoy the work.  (That is, except for those people who get degrees in English Literature or some other mostly pointless degree... I'm not sure what they were thinking...)

That's the important thing to remember here:  Other than student jobs in college towns, you're talking about people who have spent at least 4 years in college learning to do whatever it is they want to do.  I highly doubt that they wanted to turn pages for a living.

And it has already been established that there is not an overload in the labor force in Dugerra.  It was already stated that anyone who wants a job is going to have no trouble finding one.  So there is not the pressure of, "I can't find work!" to drive someone to such a position.

Of course, this is a moot point, as Jacob is not trapped on the Dugerran side of Haven, but the Earth side.  Since Jacob knows nothing of Earth, it would be hard for him to make any sort of arrangements there.

Eric Storm


Please Remember:  The right to Freedom of Speech does not carry the proviso, "As long as it doesn't upset anyone."  The US Constitution does not grant you the right to not be offended.  If you don't like what someone's saying... IGNORE THEM.
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#24 2015-10-28 17:41:33

Eric Storm
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Re: Woodward Academy, Year 5, The

Another point I'd like to raise here is that money is not nearly as important to Dugerrans as it is to people in Earth.  This is because magic eliminates the need to pay for a lot of things.  Electricity?  Who needs it?  Laundry detergent?  I have a spell for that.  My old clock is broken?  Use a repair charm...  Television?  Really, I can just go watch a play... with the same high-level special effects in use, but live!

The economy of Dugerra is not the same as the economy of Earth, and the people think about things differently.  There is less of a drive to "have things".  Again, this is a consequence of having magical abilities, which can allow you to have a lot of things without buying them, necessarily.  (Especially if you're good at metamorphosis.)  Status in Dugerra is less about wealth, and more about magical ability.  Yes, there are "money-grabbers": Jacob was one of them, for a while.  But Dugerrans are more likely to work an enjoyable job that pays sufficiently to a boring job that pays exorbitantly.  Those people who don't think this way probably won't bother staying in Dugerra: they will move back to Earth.

AND, I should point out that, if this is their intention (to move back to Earth, that is), they will probably only stay in school for two years, not four, thus not making them eligible to hold a Dugerran job.  (Because I knew you would mention the notion that they could work for Jacob for a year, collect 200,000g, and then move back to Earth with one hell of a nest egg... but they couldn't, without spending the extra two years in school.  And that would be a hell of a gamble for two years of their life, that they would get that job...)

Eric Storm


Please Remember:  The right to Freedom of Speech does not carry the proviso, "As long as it doesn't upset anyone."  The US Constitution does not grant you the right to not be offended.  If you don't like what someone's saying... IGNORE THEM.
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#25 2015-10-29 01:55:03

SkiesEnd
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Re: Woodward Academy, Year 5, The

I was talking about Earth as you had previously stated that he had no spot in Duggerra.  As far as not knowing about Earth he has a fund manager that was able to buy and keep a home in Florida so it would not be to far a stretch for said manager to get someone who is earth savvy to hire the 2yr Duggerrans who want to earn a nice nest egg for a couple years.

But this is your world and if you say it wont happen it wont and that is all that need be said.

I was just enjoying picking your brain on some thoughts I had.

I appreciate your responses and thank you for you time!~

Last edited by SkiesEnd (2015-10-29 01:55:45)

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