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If you haven't yet read Winter's Blade as far as the latest-posted chapter you might not want to read this thread.
I just posted "hide" and I must confess... it was not my original intent to leave readers hanging with so few answers at this point. However, the chapter got so long, and there was a natural dramatic break, so... you're left with yet another mysterious tease. I promise answers in the next chapter.
But in the meantime, I thought I might point out a few little things, and give folks a space to deposit conjecture. I don't know if all writers are desperate for feedback, but this one is, and I'm curious to know what readers think -- and not just because I have a massive ego that needs stroking, but because one of the things I'm never confident about is whether I'm being awfully obvious or absurdly obscure.
For example, did anyone figure out the text message before Em did? (You weren't supposed to, at least not until she said "Elves", though Alex does make a joke earlier about being attacked by the Keebler Elves...) For that matter, was it obvious who was attacked in the prelude?
Oh, small point: yes, Chester is a Smith.
well it wasn't obvious to me that they were "elves" ... I was thinking more along the lines of Golems, or puppets being brought to life and sent to do someone's will... and to some degree I still think of them that way even if you call them "elves" in your story.
you made a reference to "him" ( which I assume is the person in charge of the play-do people)
...as far as obvious, I don't know if you are or not, I've just been enjoying the rollercoaster effect.
...the text message, I admit I didn't see it before you blatantly pointed at it and said "look damn it"
...A smith? I always thought Chester's last name was "Molester" His middle name being "the"
...Oh you mean Smith...the cult...maybe... blacksmith's who forged a certain Axe...
"Play-doh people" made me laugh so hard I just had to use it...
I am glad you liked it Imagineer... I love giving people things to make them laugh
Some little things:
Mom's Cookies has absolutely nothing to do with Mother's Cookies, an actual cookie company that was founded on the west coast. They really did have a bakery in an industrial part of town, which really did close recently. Anyone who has ever sampled from a bag of Mother's Cookie Parade assortment knows that throwing together a lot of different kinds of mediocre cookies produces a result greater than the sum of its parts. A chocolate sandwich cookie with a hint of animal-cracker icing flavor is something special. And they're even better when they're a little stale. (Also available here but their images are taking forever.)
Ruprecht is a reference to Farmhand Ruprecht, a companion of Saint Nicholas in some cultures whose task is generally to punish bad children.
Zima translates to 'winter' in Russian. It is not so far as I know generally used as a first name, but when you have a chance to have a stripper interject, "I like Zima," you take it.
Ok I just read trouble...loved it...
...I am so glad you liked the Play-doh people comment...I laughed so hard I cried, just knowing you liked it so much you had to use it...and coming from Jovie...the way she talks she reminds me of....me. She makes me laugh...ALOT
The story is entertaining. Keep it coming.
Just 2 questions. 1 If they could create a "Nicholaus" army with breeding and egg harvesting and all the things available for the last 10 years or so why haven't they? They could've been raised as Em's brother's and sister's "to take over the family business" They obviously had the money to care for several other children and it would help in the battle if one couldn't get there in time. Well when they got older I mean poor kids wouldn't need to be drug to some ritual on christmas...it might royally screw them up
2 I think you made a historical error in the story but I ain't gonna waste time bitchin bout it.
It's about the giving of gifts that Jovie talks about
PS The Satan's Claws....loved it I can just imagine a bloodthirsty drooling beast roaming the country side looking for death destruction mayhem and probably a virgin or too...maybe it's a draon ooooohhhhhh aaaaaahhhhh... I know you said it appears human maybe it's a politician or maybe this time around it's a hacker and it only does a world wide computer internet plague...evil then how would we get stories and porn
...oh and do business and stuff too
HEY Imagineer Alex needs a chainsaw...then they could make cookies with the play-doh. Unless he ran out of gas. And while hairspray and a lighter wouldn't burn them badly it might catch them on fire if they are flammable enough...well just be sure NOT to have the Hero get blown up by holding it for to long or too close and letting the aresol can catch and blow up... If you do it right it creates a mini flame thrower for a short distance and the hairspray sort of sticks while it burns off... I had an entertaining youth
Last edited by dv8n (2007-01-16 11:55:50)
Question #2 -- Jovie's is a two-sentence summary of Saint Nicholas, and thus a drastic simplification, but not entirely fabricated... according to Wikipedia . I'm curious what the error is -- please post or email.
Question #1 -- There were three Winters in the family business, the youngest 48, and still a faint hope that the fourth (26) would join them. It may be a simple matter of respect that they hadn't started up the baby factory yet. It may be that the Smiths always felt they could draft Em -- they did have someone assigned to her even though she wasn't interested. It may be that there are a dozen little test-tube Winters running around already, but none of them old enough yet to take the mantle, and the Smiths are lying to Em to make her more pliable and get her to do the job in the meantime. It may be complacency -- losing them all at once was unthinkable. (Perhaps the three Winter men were never in the same place at the same time, so Dad's absence at the funeral wasn't just accepted but expected.)
You could go crazy with conspiracy theories... or you could think Emmeline's disinterest made everyone unsure of what to do so they put things off, perhaps too long, which she might use to heap more guilt upon herself. I'm not telling.
Well I guess I can understand them getting complacent and being overconfident...And if the Grandfather just refused on principle maybe...I was just curious
On Q#2 I had been looking up some things on Christmas and how it started, and I found some things I didn't expect.( this was several years ago by the way) First, the idea that it was created because of Jesus isn't 100% true... there was a pagan sun worshipping group that was big in Rome for several hundred years before Jesus was even born, They worshipped Mithra ( who was Ironically known as the lord of light and the prince of peace, AND Mithra's symbol was a sun or a cross) And Dec. 25th was Mithra's birthday ( he was born to the Queen of Heaven to save mankind from the darkness) anyway Mithra's birthday was celebrated with feasting and parties, people gave gifts to each other and had a generally rowdy time ( lots of fun in the Mithra camp if you know what I mean ) anyway when the Catholic church actually got backing from Constantine they didn't have any holy days..so some of the christains were going to the feast of Mithra( it supposedly got so bad that the Catholic church banned them from going but they went anyway...so fearing losing people they created Christmas( which was a mirror of the Mithrain celebration but not as bad) and slowly joined Mithra and Jesus to show the Mithrains that they should convert...after awhile the two were the same... just like they did with most of the pagan ideas that they couldn't beat outright...they absorbed them and made them their own...then they made up stories as to why it had "always" been that way...by the time any other "christian" church was created the Catholics had been in power for at least 1200 years suppressing info...nobody knew anything other than what they wanted them to know...thats what the European Dark Ages was all about ...gaining power and suppressing information
you can find some of this in encyclopedias under Christmas but no one looks...sorry I get on a tear sometimes
PS btw Mithra is Iranian or Persian Sun god and was absorbed by the Romans like so many other ideas...but he was changed...he dated back to a Persian religion known as Zorastorism...if your curious...Mithra went thruogh alot of changes over the centuries...first he was subservient to Ahura Mazda then he was the creator...then he was a savoir figure then he was attached to the Sun somehow and honestly reading alot of the info he sounds like Jesus was several hundred years before Jesus was so I guess they fit like matching gloves.
Also Santa according to the History Channel wasn't created until the 1800's and then backdated to Saint Nicholas the giver of toys to the children...BUT none of this really matters because Jovie was talking about what a history teacher taught her...and what you wrote is the accepted as well as "official" TRUTH whether it's 100% or not
Now ask me why Christians go to church on sunday when the Sabbath in the Bible in Saturday.
it's because Constantine "the first christain emperor" was actually the high preist of the cult of Mithra "Pontifus Maximus Sol Ivictius" and he couldn't have two days of the week that half his empire wasn't working ( saturday for the jews and christains and sunday for several of the other pagan groups as well as the mithrians) so he chose his god's holy day...Sunday...the Catholics complied and the Jews wouldn't so they were persecuted even more than before...
Shit I did it again
Last edited by dv8n (2007-01-17 18:42:57)
Santa Claus comes from the Dutch Sinterklass, a contraction of Saint Nicholas, who was known for anonymous gift-giving. "That's where the presents thing comes from." It's true that there are other contributions to the mythos we know as Santa Claus, and it's true that Saint Nick in his day and the Church in his name (and in general) co-opted or suppressed non-Christian rituals, but what Jovie said is not really a historical error. --Of course, a few minutes later the discussion turns to ambulatory apparently-sentient inflammable creatures that smell like DrPepper and decompose into piles of sugar, so we're hardly staying in the deep end of the reality pool...
What's interesting is that the Santa Claus many of us are taught about and take to be some dependable legend fixed in antiquity gets a lot less certain and a lot more complicated when you look underneath that big red coat. Kind of like when you start looking into why you're asked to make the annual midnight delivery of a bladed weapon for a simple ceremony.
One other bit -- most people know about Frankenstein, and how what we commonly refer to as Frankenstein is really Dr. Frankenstein's Monster. The monster co-opted the man's name. I had this in mind when getting from Saint Nicholas' Beast to Satan's Claws. The monster overshadows the man, which is why the Smiths hesitate to call it anything.
History is quite the loom. And it makes good fodder for stories.
well like I said " I think you made a historical error in the story but I ain't gonna waste time bitchin bout it"
The only reason I say it's a historical error is because what came first? the chicken or the egg
if egg then what laid it...if chicken where did it come from?
if mithra came first then Christianity then Saint nick might very well been influenced by the custom that the Catholics Co-opted from the Mithrains....Does it matter? Not unless the details change anything
Last edited by dv8n (2007-01-19 00:11:09)
Another little tidbit -- the images described in the "book of failures" at the end of "hide" are all actual photographs or artworks I found on the Internet in researching pandemics, with two exceptions. There were many references to steamshovels used to dig mass graves during the 1918-1919 Spanish Flu pandemic, but I didn't actually see such an image -- perhaps there is some small measure of restraint among historians if not the news media. The last image (man standing over children) came, so far as I know, from my own twisted imagination, and it still bothers me a little.
yeh it sounded like some images that I'd seen about the pandemics...they also had alot of cartoons showing "Death" overpowering and taking people...an overall sense of depression ans dread...kinda like when the nazi's got power they made everything funny about them and tried to make them look like fools...the media is weird
and by the way I can talk about spoilers here...I think Em's gonna look cute in a red felt mini skirt with white trim..and a black leather bra....black leather thing high boots and a long flowing robe made like the skirt....damn....don't forget the axe
hit that demon right in the eye, Em....feed him some Play-doh people cookies and chop his wanker...
hey did yall hear that....? it's all echo-y in hear ....almost like I'm all alone...
Hell-o.......EL-O... HUH? ....UH....What? ......Wat......this echo sucks.......ko suks
Last edited by dv8n (2007-03-04 17:49:46)
I was thinking more like a vampirella costume with a big-buckled belt for holding a pair of tomahawks and a long red fur-trimmed cloak... Alex can wear a little green vest and leggings and pointy shoes, and use a crossbow and explosive-tipped arrows.
Sorry, that was just wrong. Where's Boris Vallejo when you need him? Or maybe a Mark Beachum sketch...
how 'bout luis royo he has some kick ass work too... the scene could be Alex getting molested by the monster while Em rushes to save him....classic role reversal
And I like my idea about Ems costume thank you very much.... but you can dress Alex like a elf/boy wonder cross if you want... I think he'll hurt ya for it though I know I would.... hahahahahhahahaa
I think the red fur/felt idea links it stronger with the santa idea... and the skin tight leather while kinky and sexy just feels wrong for the way you've portrayed her... BUT then again she is goin thru a life changing event or two so she could just freak out like millions do everyday ( but I still like mine better... but it IS your story so I'll take it as i get it )
Last edited by dv8n (2007-04-03 10:49:49)